UPRATED CLUTCH

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nicko500s
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UPRATED CLUTCH

Post by nicko500s »

I know there was much debate about uprated clutches on the other Rover Forums & now I see Dark Ice Designs are promoting their 3 performance clutches, although they have not replied to my question about how much tourque they can handle, i was thinking of taking their advice & going for their dual friction clutch rather than a stiffer less usable paddle clutch, i have talked to a few people who build rally cars and have raced rovers in the past and mostly they say the paddle clutches are best for track use rather than every day use, its important to me that it stays pleasuerable to drive but i do want the clutch to be able to handle 300ftlb to easily handle any future mods, i have reread the clutch info on here but before i decide on a clutch i thought i would see if any others on here had already fitted uprated clutches or had any advise? also i assume the standard release bearing is fine with uprated clutches?
E_T_V
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Re: UPRATED CLUTCH

Post by E_T_V »

It'll always be a trade-off between feel and torque capability.

There are two, well 3 ways of uprating a clutch.

The first is to change the friction material for one that is more grippy, but this is usually a small amount of upgrade really. This is why people talk about organic clutches as it is generally more grippy than standard material.

The second is to increase the pressure of the springs in the clutch. However this gives a harder pedal feel. On cable clutches this often causes issues with cables snapping. Hydraulic systems give less issues.

The third is to reduce the amount of friction material in contact with the flywheel/pressure plate. This can be done by reducing the amount of friction material as the stage 2 black diamond clutch appears to have. Also this is what Kestral do for their clutches too. Taken further you end up with the paddle arrangement as helix and the CG motorsport and the stage 3 black diamond have.

300ftlb is a lot of torque and more than you'll see on the standard turbo typically. Standard OE clutch is usually good for 250ftlb.
nicko500s
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Re: UPRATED CLUTCH

Post by nicko500s »

well i ended up with CG Motorsports Uprated Clutch Kit - Type : Stage 3 - Paddle Clutch (6 paddles) my concern was that this would have a heavy pedal but its lighter than i remember the old one to be, certainly not heavy anyway. now apparently this can handle up to 270ftlbs which is only 20ftlbs more than the standard clutch and some of the other uprated clutches are rated less than the 250ftlbs of the oe clutch quoted on here, is it worth the extra money? at £238 im not sure it is, the first time i drove it the clutch slipped (in 4th & 5th grear & with average throttle) which dissapointed me, i contacted the supplier and asked if there was any procedure to running in the new clutch (like they advised with the kevlar clutch) they informed me that i was to do 500 miles driving around town to bed in the clutch and not to slip it, however there is at this time no mention of this on their web page or in the packaging i never beded a clutch in before & never had any problems, I didnt no they needed to be bed in? the amount of slip was just as bad as wen the clutch arm was stiff (unknowen to me at the time as the pedal wasnt noticably any different) and there was oil getting on the clutch. the greabox has been properly rebuilt so the arm is nice and free and i cleaned and lightly sanded the flywheel as well, plus i fitted new clutch slave and master cylinders so im happy all that is fine.
I turned the boost down to 12psi and am driving like an old man for the next 500 miles i just hope this stopps any slipping when its bedded in?
do new clutches need bedding in? should these paddle clutches need bedding in?
E_T_V
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Re: UPRATED CLUTCH

Post by E_T_V »

All clutches need to bed in to some degree however some are much worse than others. The Kevlar ones for example take a long time to bed in properly.

If you plotted torque capacity against time you'd see it'll increase for a while before plateauing for a long time and then eventually it'll tail off gradually. The time to reach the plateau is in theory the bedding in time. However for OE clutches you'll find you never notice this period as if it doesn't slip to start with then it never will.

I don't know about the clutch in question but some motorsport clutches have very low ratings but can take a lot more than that. For example helix are rated something like 200ftlb or something silly like that, however have regularly seen twice that level in some applications. I've got one to re-line if I ever need to.
nicko500s
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Re: UPRATED CLUTCH

Post by nicko500s »

Thanks ETV for that info, i feel more confident it will be ok now, i was going to replace it with a standard clutch if it didnt stop slipping but i understand now that with careful use it will gain grip, its already better than it was after 230 miles :)
nicko500s
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Re: UPRATED CLUTCH

Post by nicko500s »

1200 miles later & still some slipping in third at full throttle, boost settled at 14psi but i think it will still be ok, just suprised its taking so long. when they said "round town driving for 500 miles" i think they wernt joking but who is ever going to do that in the real world?
Kieranm105
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Re: UPRATED CLUTCH

Post by Kieranm105 »

There are a load on eBay for the Freelander Stage 1,2 & 3 clutches from a company in Cleckheaton West Yorkshire (just up t'road from me!). They are cheaper than the same elsewhere online.
I would guessd they have other rover ones to.
Kieran
nicko500s
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Re: UPRATED CLUTCH

Post by nicko500s »

well im very wary of uprated clutches now, mine is still slipping slightly after 1400+ miles of careful driving although it slipped badly when new which could be why its taken so long to run in.
if I was doing it again I would go with a high quality std clutch or if I had to I would go for an uprated clutch that had normal friction material but stronger springs perhaps and make do with a heavy pedal.
if it where a simple thing to change it wouldn't be a problem but as i do it outside my house on my own and learning as I go its too much hassle & with the new quaif diff the gearbox is now really heavy, I would have to pay a garage to do it next time.
The lsd is interesting as it takes a little getting used to, grip is greatly improved in the dry but Im still getting used to it pulling across the road under heavy acceleration, which I have only done a few times while the clutch beds in, perhaps this is torque steer?
in the wet it still wheel spins but instead of staying where you point it, it slides across the exit of roundabouts due to both front wheels spinning so I still cant use full throttle in the wet.
Thinking of roundabouts the upper and lower rear braces I fitted from motobuild kill lift off oversteer & give a positive feel to cornering.
was you thinking of putting a uprated clutch in your freelander then? have you done any more mods recently?
nicko500s
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Re: UPRATED CLUTCH

Post by nicko500s »

Update for any one who's been following this post.
This clutch has probably done about 3k now and it still judders in 1st and reverse, which is probably normal for this clutch. you can slip the clutch to reduce this but I don't like doing that, its not that a big issue for me, just letting you know what you might encounter if you get one yourself.
There is no slipping now at all, as you would hope but its a very very long running in period if your not expecting it and you will not be able to drive enthusiastically for, in my case about 1500 miles which took 3 months as I don't drive the car that much.
In the first 600 miles even medium acceleration can cause it to slip and of course to give it the best life time you don't want to slip it at all.
I underestimated the std clutch and I now think it would be fine.
E_T_V
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Re: UPRATED CLUTCH

Post by E_T_V »

Good to hear the end of the story, and glad it worked out ok in the end!

Like I said those Kevlar ones take an age to bed in properly!
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